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I guess I got the question of the day and you know I've been off and on listening to this net and a couple of others trying to sort of test out a few things. Actually I put together a spreadsheet of about 100 nets now and I sorted it all by time so I sort of have something to go to and a lot of nets to check out and that's what I've been doing. But to the question specifically, same thing as a lot of other people mentioned this sentence, I've got five or six of them for HF and none of them work but I don't think it was really the intent. I was trying to set things up on my patio at my apartment complex and the whole thing is stucco, stucco roof, stucco side, stucco everything with of course wire and what have you in it and none of it worked with the exception of one that tried to avoid all the stucco and that worked a little bit. So I'm sort of off HF and I'm on digital now and I find that to be a lot better solution for me for an apartment complex where you can't put up the big antenna. So with that, back to net, KN6YZ.