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movement especially in a vehicle you know that just that if you have any movement rattles or whatever they have a tendency to pull through, break things, tear that's you know vibration and in a vehicle especially you know just go off the road once in a while you know like the mountain tops or whatever and and those bumpy roads really really hard unless you've got some you know some heavy gauge metal and like you say fender washes I'm a big candidate of fender washes because they're big I don't know why they're so expensive but they're big and they usually cure their problems. Yeah you know and the short booms that I have I mean they're two inches long and it's a gimbal mount so it's for a camera and you know they're they're pretty good and you know you can move them around up and down and all that